If you use someone elses code from github, cocoacontrols you should say so. NO ONE is going to steal your code, another plugin will not make rival using the same code. Give them credit, in the headers because if it breaks you won't know how to fix it. Give the name of the people who made it with a link, don't pretend you make it yourself. If it was a tutorial post teh tutorial. 95% of users still won't be able to make a plugin. Also plugins should be customizabel from the control panel. You acn easily swap out the header image in a xib don't be lazy put the bloody code in. Don't wow me with there's a text file you can change make it a child item it's not too difficult. Don't lie you will be found out, nop your limitations and your skills. There is nothing wrong with making a plugin and saying hey this is cool Joe Bloggs made a game and now it's easy for you to add to your app.

Anyone who releases a plugin without credits I will post the github link and anyone can add it with mrdavids storyboard plugin. Let's make our plugins smart, attractive, useful and make them the Busstouch way

I agree!! I thought about this yesterday and noticed copied code without reference. Open source is open source but we have to give credit.

Exactly, programmers strive for there credit as well go to the programming sections on reddit people are baying for blood for less. Open source free to sell manipulate whatever with credit. Plus if you are using someone else code make sure you understand what it does so you can answer bug queries. Althopugh that does kepp me in business fixing others code when teh developer goes missing lol

Wow! Who pissed you off! I agree, don't take credit for something that isn't really yours, theres nothing wrong in borrowing someones work provided you let them know or at the very least credit them in the work you are about to do. It's like stealing a Jedi's lightsaber!

I'm just on one bad day at work. I might have our own Scringo replacement, finally a uni assignment has something I may want to use

Ha that should have been in an email

kittsy, if you are referring to the other thread, you are way off base. I have 40-60 coding hours on the backend server. I didn't "throw up a github script and slap a skin on it" as you seem all to anxious to accuse me of. Yes, the chat module is pointing to a URL, but it's because I had 3 people ASK ME if I could make something like that. If you don't want to use it, don't. The chat provider logo is featured right on the front screen, not trying to hide it. It's what people ASKED ME to do, and the URL is even changable to anything they want in the control panel end... the control panel has all kinds of custom instructions and step-by-steps... yeah, It's chat for newbies... sorry for making a plugin that was requested of me. For the nintendo plugin, you are WAAAAYYY out of line there. That backend server literally took me months to code up and function the way I wanted it to on a mobile device. Yes, there are other scripts out there that have some of the same functionality, and rthey didn't meet my expectations and requirements. Sorry if I have high standards and don't just slap something together and throw it out there. Take a look at my plugins list, and tell me I'm wrong. Or maybe download one for yourself and look at the code. Hell, I'll email you some for free if you want. Anyone that has bought my plugins in the past know from looking at my code that EVERY single line is documents and commented as to what it does, which I do as I write it. I don't just take someones code and slap a skin on it. Next time, please contact me professionally instead of making false accusations when you have no idea what you're talking about. I'm not going to play this game. I'm not playing "forum pissing match". I've said what I have to say about it. I've spent enough enough time on this, just to have you take it away in 1 post. Not spending anymore.

really just because youw rite comments explaining what it does isn't really modding the code Ultimate hangman = https://github.com/shawngrimes/HangmanMP-Complete If someone asked me if I knew a way of adding a chat view and I knew of the website you used I would have just told them that. Oh like i did last night. Whats funny is I would never of got onto that if you hadn't posted, so if your chat was honestly helping why encourage people to buy a plugin that is the same as the customURL screen. Now I don't think you can defend that. Anyway we'll leave it there. Look at me being all macapple lol

Interesting thread. Left desk to come and read in full and comment. 'being all MacApple' going to trademark that. Love it, good thread.

Kittsy, not even 50% of the code in Ultimate Hangman is the same. and I'm just talking bout the code lines, not even mentioning the iphone 3.5"/iphone 4"/ipad custom sotryboards, the xib landing pages, the graphic work, the commenting, the custom classes, the achievements, etc, etc. I'm talking straight line for line code in the .h and .m files... not even 50% is the same. I wish you'd actually take a look at my stuff before accusing it of being something it's not. Very unprofessional from a fellow plugin developer. I would have expected you to contact me and ask me about it instead of throwing out accusations without looking at the code itself. I thought the plugin market was open to all, and it was the buyers choice as to if they thought the plugin is worth it to them to use in their project, and if so, buy it, and if not, then don't. Github or not (which most of mine are NOT), the average user can't use a github project in buzztouch. But thats a different topic. I didn't know that the plugin market was bullied by others thinking they know the other persons efforts and the amount of time and custom work that went into their project, and that want to take that all away with a couple of forum threads. The only thing that can do is hurt someone that could use a plugin, but is no longer available or trusted because of the false information that post about others. Take a look at my spotless reputation, on my reviews and comments in the forum about my plugins, or even the free custom versions of plugins I do for people with my plugins for no charge when they want to alter it to make it something that was never intended. I did a 5 file re-write for GraciousWolf on one of my plugins yesterday because he wanted it to do something that wasn't in the original scope of the plugin. 24 hour turn around time, no charge. Anyways... I'm doing exactly what I said I wasn't going to do, so I'm stopping here.

In my experiences developing plugins I've found that writing the html/php for the control panel and dropping JSON data points in the source code so that these values can be manipulated by the CP - this takes way longer than writing the actual source code! But that JSON is really the true magic of BT - this is what allows non coders to customize their app. This is what allows you to modify your app/code without having to resubmit a new binary package and users updating the app. This is why people should use BT to build apps. It def seems like the majority of new plugins to the market don't utilize this BT feature. The instructions given are for modding source code. This is the only way I can explain how people are cranking out plugins so quickly. Just simply subclassing the main viewcontroller from a project as a BT vc and then uploading to market. The Aviary SDK plugin I just finished probably uses the least amount of JSON in a plugin I've done yet. But there is some JSON in there to control the key feature of the plugin - the API Key.

This thread is worrisome to me as a non-coder because I rely on the validity of plugins available on BT. Should the plugins not rather first be evaluated by a panel before it goes on sale? Or maybe we should have two levels of plugins: those that have been scrutinised and those that developers want to make available regardless.

OK I did what you asked I checked the code in your chat, mario and hangman plugin the chat and mario plugin .m files are identical to the free bt_customURL .m other than changing the class file obviously. (and you haven't commented on ripping off people saying your $10 plugin would show the chat better mmm but anyway) your hangman plugin is 95% the code of ShawnGrimes https://github.com/shawngrimes/HangmanMP-Complete You have copied the code from the app delegate and a few various others in to one other file which is cool that is what I would have done. You added twenty or so lines to remove the buttons and keep all the buttons on one storyboard. Again fine. Obviously you have moved the all of the uielements around on the storyboard to make it look nicer because his does look rubbish. I don't understand the uiscrollview I'm guessing he thought it would be useful for longer displays or when the iPad is in landscape. You have made separate storyboards for iPad and iPhone 5 don't understand the new trend in iphone5 xibs it's easier to use match or resizing masks especially when there is not that much going on. Also if you want to make this plugin better learn child items so people can change the word list whenever they want using a data url or manually input. BUT MY POINT IS THAT I DON'T MIND SEEING GITHUB CODE JUST ACKNOWLEDGE THE SOURCE. Plus if you look at his code it says all rights reserved which means his code is not open source. Another tip if you are masking a text string like you have done with the NES so people can't see the link, it pops up in the config.txt and in the self hosted so pointless. Plus another risky thing is if you show your server hierarchy like that and people know that you used webnes github project by following the file path you can find out you swapped the images and made the frame of the add more roms to (0,0) so people couldn't add there own roms . and if it took you 60 hours to do that, errrr. And if you are wondering how I got the code, something else thats a bit annoying. Giving open access to your self hosted so anyone can sign in without verification to download all of your plugins, my plugins, chris1's new awesome $40 plugin the plugin niraj spent months creating just for free. Your generosity is amazing. I don't want this to continue to be a slanging match, I've done what you asked me to do, I have reported truthful findings, I must be psychic as I knew this already. Just give the original creator some credit

@Tyronner the plugins are fine they all work great all of angry ninjas stuff is great I just want some credit given to the original coders and people not to lie about making stuff.

Did yall know that ebay had a cyber attack? so they want everyone changing their passwords lol If anyone finds something I can do in my plugins to make it more buzztouchy let me know.Especially I want critcism from you experienced developers but also from any user.Any thing to make it better holla ha.Interesting post

Thanks for the update Chris, to make things more buzz touchy, 1. if you say refer to a txt.file a json file in your project a simple database in your project. Then there is a good chance you could buztouch it by adding child items. Like list of words, list of map locations, lists of screens etc. 2. If you have one image header make it controllable in the control panel, even if it's in a xib it can still be connected to the panel. Shit if you have 6 images you can make them all controllable. For example and i don't want to knock angry ninja but you could set it so that every part of hangman dude is available from the control panel image url, imagine at christmas you put a santas hat on the cowboy, or if its halloween turn him into a zombie cowboy. Do you get what I mean. 3. change background images, button titles, colours of buttons and text In the end it is your choice what you make but it is expected of us to create plugins that can be updated in the control panel thats what makes buzz touch fun and cool and individual. the reason it takes me so long to release a plugin because I want to make it as fool proof and useful as I can.

Kittsy, I see your point. I was unaware that the credit to the open source was the issue. I thought your were accusing me of creating a customURL to a website and trying to profit from it, in other words saying I slap something together in 15 minutes. The work you are seeing on the NES plugin isn't reflected on that directory... those are just my installed plugins. The stuff with the game center achievements, sound fix, frame rate optimization, social sharing, etc are all on my local HD, prepping for the first update. But still, the script used in the current version is far from stock. However... I was misunderstanding what you were saying. I do try to credit the original code (if used) in my plugins. Some I did forget, as I'm seeing now. If you poke around my other plugins though, you will see references to even the most minor of code in the headers if used, even crediting MrDavid of BT-Mods for the 6 lines I used in the project to load the storyboards. The All Rights Reserved is placed their automatically by the generated BT header... I never gave it much thought until now. Looks like I'll be manually editing that when needed. Sorry for the flare back, I assumed I was under attack for using some code from third party sources, which was confusing because of your mosaic menu, carousel and other plugins that were from the same sources, but i didn't want to mention it in public forum. It was frustrating like I said to put over 2 months into fine tuning something, only to have it ripped apart by in the first 10 minutes saying that I simply pointed a web control at someones URL. Point taken on the credits in the headers. I'll keep an eye on that. Just please do me a favor and if something like this happens, please send me a message and bring it to my attention rather than bashing, assuming and accusing in an open forum (or sending messages to BT admins, which seen my point of view right away after inspecting my backend server work). On a side note, I've been trying to learn how to tie things into the CP more, but can't find any good documentation. You mentioned changing a header on an XIB file for example... I know how to add the field into the CP, but I don't know how to insert the code with the variable that is fetched from the CP json data. Any tips or tutorials that you can point me to? It's not being included due to laziness, just lack of know how, lol.

Thats fine we'll draw a line under it, I've had a terrible day and I always find my self sticking up for the little dudes, the chat one seriously pissed me off and I hope you can understand why. You don't reinvent the wheel thats why cocoa controls is there to use and share and I still credit them because I didn't write the code I buzz touched it. But the code I use are "controls" "subclasses""extensions" is what people create to make there lives and others different. Games are different the key part to a game is game play changing all the images and stuff pales in comparison to the clever bastard who wrote 500+ lines of code. Even adding game centre to a game isn't enough for anyone to claim ownership. Plus if you fell under a bus and no one new where the original code was it would never get fixed. What you did with the hangman plugin is great as I said above it looks 100 times better than his. And you fixed the bugs in a piece of code written over 2 years ago. I acknowledge again I did go about this the wrong way, and to be fair I am not really known on here to be a keyboard warrior, it's just the more I learn about programming the more I become a programmer thus respect more what others have done and how friggin hard it is. and you don't need to credit mr david or me or anyone for a little one line of code or a switch statement they have probably pinched it off stack overflow. I know your not being lazy with the cpanel it's just pushing through the pain barrier and breaking and fixing stuff. Documentation is shit for the control panel smug did a good tutorial so did and the vlad the and I copy paste and edit. You find a plugin that is similar to yours and you copy the html change the json values boom.

Quite a thread! Glad everyone seems to be coming to a consensus! The only thing I would add is really more of an emphasis on one of Kittsy's side comments. I too noticed that you've made it super easy for people to steal plugins. Might want to lock that down.

@angry ninja I am curious how you have a copy of my RD_memory_game plugin ? It is not in the market and I don't remember sharing it. Please refresh my memory. Thanks.

..... and my RD_simpleDraw plugin too?

I'm probably as guilty as anyone. In some ways, perhaps more so. Just don't go all 'MacApple' on me, please. Cheers! -- Smug

@Chris1, agreed, I never looked at it like that. Kittsy and I were just discussing that in PM. Didn't think of people using it to steal plugins. Site locked down and no longer available for public use. @RedDog, another member had be debug some stuff on those two several months ago, something with the app delegate if I remember right. Was not supposed to remain there for public use. Deleting them as we speak.

I sure would like to know who sent them to you. Those plugins have not been given to anyone.

I know you sent the one to me at one point, Barry. But I'm 95% sure I didn't send them to anyone else.

PM sent

@chris1 - Yes, I sent you my "down on the farm" app but it did not have the RD_simpleDraw plugin in it. Maybe this would be a GREAT time for an expert (that rules me out) to post a "how to" secure your BT server document.

Hummmm

So.... Who shared the plugins from @Red Dog with who?

Lol

cool thanks i understand better I kinda confused myself lol. I need to read the checklist too ha

I have to give credit where credit is do and so I would like to say "@Kittsy speaks the TRUTH!" Its evident he has done his research and is very knowledgeable and many of us can learn from him. Here is what I learned from Professor Kittsy's post: 1. Anyone who releases a plugin without credits he will post the github link 2. The code we should use are "controls" "subclasses""extensions" this is what people create to make there lives and others different. 3. Dont mess with @Kittsy Got it! Thanks again for bringing awareness to this subject. @MacApple don't forget to trademark "being all MacApple" before @Kittsy does. Lol Interested to hear David Booker's thoughts on this matter.

As a non-coder and fairly new BTer, I have to say this was an interesting thread to read, and I'm impressed not only with the knowledge but the civil way in which the "issues" were resolved. It's nice to see people figuring this stuff out without getting (too) nasty. We're all human. Thanks.

Nice summary, @MrKamel! This is my summary: 1. Give recognition to developers when you use their code, including links to where you found it. I don't think this will lead to a significant loss of plugin sales, as only a subset of Buzztouch users would have the skills or desire to implement it themselves. 2. If your plugin isn't based on iOS (Objective C) or Android (Java) source code, mention this in the readme. The web-based code is very helpful for apps that work on both iOS and android, but it isn't native and some users market their apps as using native code vs being a web app. 3. Understand the risk of using copyrighted material. I am risk adverse, and I avoid it like the plague. As MacApple pointed out, it is not consistent with the BT TOC. 4. The more controls you give the user in the control panel the better. I predict that the plugins that are the most successful in the long term will be the plugins that give the users a lot of controls. This may be a good topic for developer training and I will see if I can arrange it.

Well said Susan! Just don't ask me to explain how to help other developers make plugins that have the level of control that the Ultimate Screen Creator does! Lol. That thing took me the better part of a week to create!

(Tongue in cheek by the way on that last post - I'd be happy to walk through the logic on a developer meeting sometime. We are open source after all :)

Just seeing the json of your plugin makes my head scream Chris. I'll find my feet with android before looking at complex java script web technology. We think android screen sizes are difficult try different versions of web browser, types of browser, screen size, plugins added like firefox and chrome. Sounds like a nightmare

I totally agree. It's nice to have some uniform guidelines instead of "here's a market, put stuff in it". I read the brief plugin developer docs, but it is very generalized. It would be nice to take all of the info here and add to the developer docs for future plugin developers to read, as well as some tutorials on creating control panels options and how to integrate them into your code. The only one I've seen so far still refers to the < 2.0 with the index.php, which is no longer applicable.

I was thinking it would be pointless to have cp functions for images when they can just swap them out. But if A user wants the,same game with different themes in one app,you would need that

Also, it's easier to set images using the control panel than trying to have the exact file names for everything. Or if someone wants to change the look in a couple months. Or if ...

We really need some tutorials on how to do this. I'd love to hook everything up via the control panel, but the documentation is very limited. I'd love to see a "step 1... do this, step 2... do this" type of document for connecting common items to the CP and having it dynamically change the settings in your plugin at runtime... changing a picture is a great example... maybe adding an NSString variable would be another good one, since we could customize that example for URL's, Color Codes, or pretty much anything that could be used as a variable inside the code... and now that I think about it, thats probably how the picture change works, by using the CP field as an NSString variable... but see what I mean, I don't even know that, lol.

Tutorials are good, but writing them is time consuming. I write tutorials for UI stuff for iOS. As I said before if you find a plugin that does something similar to what you want, and copy them elements. If you want to know how to add an image. Go to the menu with image plugin check out the but of html that has that code you don't even have to change the variables really, then go to the ,m file or. java look for the string used and see how it is then controlled in Xcode. That's how I learned and when we started making them no one was shown it was always hack it up and use the great code Emperor Book wrote and amend to requirements.

How about this? At the next Buzztouch Developer meeting that David Book can't come to, let's work on some Plugin Market Guidelines for Developers. That way we can document some of this going forward and put it into the How-To's. I think it is likely David will come to the meeting next week, so the discussion will likely be the week after that.

@Red Dog - Can you email me buddy.

Cool Susan that would be nice! Chris1 thats making more sense now to me,like kittsy said they could change graphics according to seasons.So they could already have the graphics in the app, then change the name of the graphic in cp to the corresponding season.thats cool,never thought of it

Yup - or better download and cache images

@MacApple. PM sent. Can't find your real email at the moment.