The other day I started a thread intending to find out when the next set of plugins will be released, but instead the thread picked up on something that I was non the wiser to and that is, "is the plugin market keeping everyone happy?", and the answer to that is probably no, it isn't. Previous thread: https://www.buzztouch.com/forum/thread.php?tid=3BAFF9BA7522829F90753F1&currentPage=2 I thought then to speak to a few developers who create plugins, to see how they felt and I was surprised, as I am someone who is happy, but I seat on the other side of the fence as I'm not a developer creating the plugins. It's become apparent that maybe the plugin creators are unhappy and may lose motivation to build new plugins and the main reason is pricing. I remember when BT asked the community about what they would want from the market and a few questions were related to cost. Now at the time many said around the $10 mark; I didn't have an opinion as I wasn't someone who would be creating plugins, so I was happy. Now, I assuming the cost of a plugin verses the number of users, using BT meant it would probably be good business for the plugin creators. But I don't think it is. When speaking to some of the plugin creators the cost of the plugin verses the time spent to create and what they may make from the sales, doesn't seem to satisfy the creator. Right now, you are probably thinking , why should I care, but I do, for the very reason that if developers are unsatisfied they may lose interest and stop producing plugins. I didn't get it until I saw the way the thread was unfolding in the previous thread I started. Previous thread: https://www.buzztouch.com/forum/thread.php?tid=3BAFF9BA7522829F90753F1&currentPage=2 So Questions should the plugins be priced higher? Should the market change its strategy to favour the plugin creators? Are the developers feeling like it isn't worth it? I'm not here as a kill joy, I believe in paying a fair price for plugins as I know I am making money from them. I just want to ensure both sides of the parties involved, that is the plugin creator and the user/buyer are happy and it appears the buyer is happy but the creator isn't.

I hate to give my two cents but i will. I am only 3 months into BT but i love it and it has given me a hobby. I will never be a full coder and dont intend to be but i have fun making apps for people and again its a hobby. I have participated as much as possible to give back because others have given to me. This is a great community, there are great people here. I think the people who make the plugin make Bt what it is. However they dont only make them but they also give back as you see them day in and out respond to help requests on the forum. However sometimes I do view things differently than others because of my life job. I did however uncover a couple people really taking advantage of BT. I did some digging because that what i do. I found that someone is calling there self hosting bt there own software that they came up with. Even in the terms of service it was quoted that it was there own idea, property and trademark. They are then saying that the bt plugins are theres also and they are making money off some plugins that are free here. If i were a plugin developer why would i release a plugin for the good of BT with the good people here only for someone to really take advantage of that. I will continue to be in this community as long as i can and participate and give back to new members that were in the same spot I am. Its the least i can do. Many have made youtube videos, tutorials and even have done team viewer session for free to those in need. That is what i feel bt is about. Shame on those who ruin it for others. Whats the answer i dont know? Dont get me wrong there are some if not alot great bt self hosted people out there. Take for instance Mr.David not only does he provide a service but he gives back a ton to this community. This is just my opinion. I understand by some plugins never make it here. I dont blame the developer on it. However i hope some do and it allows me to have fun in the BT community. JV

Because I deal primarily with both iOS as well as Android, any plugin I use must be for both platforms, which at times limits the options I have. As such, I am creating a lot of plugins I need for my own use. If I feel I have something that is commercially viable, I'm thrilled to put it into the plugin market. But there are a lot of other factors that go into the decision (or not) to put it into the market. 1) Is it plug and play? Frankly this is the biggest reason I don't have more stuff in the market. Sometimes what folks 'want' doesn't lend itself to a couple of fields in the control panel. As I get better, I'm able to 'consolidate' my code into the plugin, but at the moment, even if things work, they work because I have custom code strewn throughout a project, and I can't expect other users to know how to do this. 2) Is it brain proof? Meaning, does it work without any user thought or intervention? Because if it doesn't, then I have to support it. If I have to support it, it takes time. If it takes time, I'd rather not release it, because I don't have the time to support it. Releasing a plugin to the public, whether free or at cost, brings with it some responsibility of the developer to ensure that their 'brand' or reputation remains intact, which brings some obligation of support. And again, that takes time. As well, if the plugin developer has a niche in one area doesn't denote expertise in another. And sometimes, if a user has a problem, even though it's not related to the plugin, they expect assistance. 3) Does it require additional software? I'm doing things with maps, trying to figure out which path I want to take, either Google Maps, or CloudMade. In either case, I have to utilize a special SDK for my plugin to work. If I distribute this plugin, along with Reason #2 I also take on the responsibility of ensuring a user, regardless of experience, can install the SDK, additional compiler directives, and such. More time. I remember being new at this, and I remember what frustration it was at times, so I'm always happy to help someone new try and understand. But that's different that doing it for them. That annoys the crap out of me. For the most part, if I'm working on anything someone is interested in, as long as they're a BT member, I'm happy to share whatever I've done so far... but with respect to 'formal' plugin release, I do have plans, but the really big stuff usually stays internal, merely due to the complexity of the projects. Just a view from my side of the fence. Cheers! -- Smug

I don't want to ruin it for everyone else, but I think the current pricing of the plugins is dirt cheap and I would happily pay much more to support the creators. If you simply think of it from the classic "time is money" point of view - if I tried to figure out how to implement in-app-purchases from scratch, it would probably take me at least two weeks of headaches, late nights, and fruitless google searching until it finally clicked...and here is the Easy In App Purchase plugin available for only $10?! It doesn't add up to me. Like I wrote in the review for that same plugin..even it was $100 it would still be an incredible deal.

I come from the world of WordPress where open-source and paid-source happily co-exist in the form of Themes and Plugins. The BuzzTouch platform might have dived too quickly into the paid plugins arena. Also, the price of the plugins is a mere pittance. Its not going to put the daily bread on the table. The end result will be very disappointed plugin developers. As such, my initial developer foray into the plugin world will be on a free basis. That way, my expectation is reduced to a simple level of "user satisfaction". As the BuzzTouch ecosystem grows, expands and matures, only then it will be more conducive to money-making activities. As an example of an established BuzzTouch Plugin Developer, one of our pioneers, PSMDanny, has (successfully?) made his own brand and marketplace for premium plugins. He has established a presence within the BuzzTouch ecosystem and also adjacently on his own. In conclusion, the plugin market can be a happy place for Plugin Developers if the expectations are directly tied to the maturity of the BuzzTouch ecosystem. Hopefully this makes sense. It only takes a backwards look at the evolution of WordPress to realize how this business model can be successful for all types of participants. -- Niraj

Why I don't make plugins for BuzzTouch? 1. This is a very small market to start with and here's why. BuzzTouch is different as compared to other app builders. The potential buyer has to learn a lot in order to start feeling a need for a plugin. 2. It is not clear where the border lies between code piracy and legitimate new coding for a plugin. Looking at the code for some of the plugins for Android, I have to wonder what have I paid actually for. Some of the plugins have so little code that I just wouldn't want to pay for that. In that regard, even the current price of 3, 5 10 dollars is huge and is hard to justify. 3. The fact is that many plugins now would be welcome and are sorely needed. The RSS for Android is the prime example, while the Android API player of YouTube videos would be another. In my view, this is such a basic functionality that I feel it would be a duty of BuzzTouch itself to provide those plugins. But it is not happening, as we all know. David is rightfully preoccupied with more fundamental things and that is OK. Maybe BuzzTouch could outsource i.e. pay selected developers to write those missing pieces and then give the plugins for free. 4. It is very difficult to develop plugins. It is not that I haven't tried. I did and I actually spent quite a lot of time writing plugins for Android. For RSS, it quickly turned out that feeds are a jungle of their own. Seems that each RSS provider has their own internal format for feeds. The testing for all that could take weeks if not months and I just do not want to devote my time to that for 50 or 100 dollars per month + support. Smug had the idea of a plugin that would read the GPS coordinates and send them automatically through SMS. I started coding that only to find out that each type of Android device had its own ideas about GPS. What worked on one device from one manufacturer just may not work anywhere else. Writing plugins is far from trivial as we can see. It either requires significant investment of time or hardware, or both. The way it is now, I shall continue to produce my own "internal" plugins for my own apps, similar to what Smug does. The way BuzzTouch is organized, everything that you add to the app has to be a plugin of some kind, so if you want to add your own code, you have no choice but to become a "plugin developer". But writing plugins for the general market is out of the question, I'm afraid. It would make sense if somebody paid me in advance say 500 or 900 dollars for a plugin, depending on the complexity of the requirements, but otherwise I am not game.

A couple thought: it's true most things in BT apps are plugins of some sort, but its not required. I've pushed standard viewcontrollers from existing plugins with no problem. Plugins add a lot to the app though, and make coding easier in my opinion. Dusko is absolutely right that it takes a ton of work to make a fully functional plugin that can be sold on the market. From a purely financial perspective, it's probably not worth the return on investment ... right now. That will change I suspect as we get better at making them and more people join the community. Still, it would be nice if BT did have a full-time developer on staff just for plugins. That person could create free ones and help others finish theirs. Remember, BT makes some money off plugins for sale in the market, so it's worth it to them for us to sell what they could otherwise do for free. Piracy is not cool, but also I don't think it's a huge problem. If this other site is truly copying BT code and passing it off as their own, it would be a huge undertaking and some brilliance oh their own. Probably it's just a self-hosted user limited to 100 API calls a month, which would limit customers and/or prevent customers from being able to download source code.

Hi All, thanks for the feedback, all comments are constructive and I think the views show that another rethink is needed. I have just had a PM from Fred and MacApple and I have asked especially Fred to add his views to this thread and he has made some very good points, which Dusko and Niraj have made. As I have mentioned before I was happy because I'm not developing the plugins but I agree with Absentia, I would happily pay more as I think they are too cheap. I could imagine that last statement with have certain members wanting to give me the death penalty! All views are welcome and needed, to help move BT forward. I will not lie and admit that I have benefited from BT in many ways.

One of the things I am doing to show my appreciation is I am talking with a developer to help build me a plugin, which I am happy to pay for if the price is reasonable, but to also allow them to sell the plugin in the market and to keep all proceeds. This person may or may not want to work like this. My point is, I know I will make money from it and I don't want to be seen like the greedy bankers that have destroyed what Capitalism was meant to do and provide, which was prosperity to all. I would like to see, more partnerships in BT and maybe a job board for BT users to request paid work from developers. If the price isn't right the plugin will probably not get done. I agree about BT employing a full-time plugin developer, could solve many problems.

This is a topic worth discussing at the St. Louis BuzzCon. I will see if David & Co. are in the groove for such a talk over a cuppa. -- Niraj

Just had a idea.. What about have a developer membership.. If you create a plugin and it meets the requirements and ends up on bt you then. Get all plugging at a drastic price reduction or free and its good for a year or something.. Then developers benefit buy saving money and still benefit on there with $. It may motivate some to develop and some to release theirs.. As more come out the deveplors get those as a perk .. Members like me will always pay but benefit with more plugins.. Just a thought ..

I like the idea of bzdesk (odesk for buzztouch) :)