It feels like a waste of time to create plugins sometimes. I'm selling plugins I charge clients $300+ for and only 3 people would actually buy it when it's 20 or less in the market. I've written so many plugins for myself that I don't ever think Ill release to the market because it would devalue all of my hard work. Should I sell these plugins for hundreds in the market for the few people that buy them? Seems reasonable. Really it's probably better if I make apps for clients myself. I can't spend my life making plugins for pennies. Oh and I've upgraded a few of the plugins with bug fixes.

I know exactly what you mean Coffee. It's the nature of the beast. If we were doing it for profit, we'd all be living under a bridge right now. The way I look at it though, yeah, it might take a a couple of weeks (or even months) to get a solid plugin out there, but once the work is done, it stays in the market making recurring income, even if it's only a few dollars each month, for no additional work, other than keeping an eye on it for bugs/updates/etc. We also take that same gamble every time we submit an app to the app store... in the app store, it could get 1 million downloads, or 6. You never know, but once it's submitted, it's still there for people to purchase while you are moving on to other projects and spending time elsewhere. Plugins are certainly not a path to riches, but they might buy me a case of beer once a month, and by making plugins, I've probably learned more objective C than any class or online resource could teach me. :)

I don't build plugins for profit. I build them because I need the functionality. Building a plugin for the BT community, while noble, is not going to get you that private jet. When I'm finished with a project, I'll evaluate the commercial viability of my plugin, and decide whether its worth the time to 'generalize' it for regular use. Sometimes it's worth it. Sometimes it's not. Just my 2¢ Cheers! -- Smug

My 2c worth; I am a user of Buzztouch. I can not code for s%#t. I am 58 years old, on a disability pension and have a history of web design. I have 1 app in the app store but I have about a dozen that I play with and some I can see ending up in the app store. Simply put, if you add a plugin for hundreds of dollars, I will not buy it. I can not afford to buy and the ROI is horrendous. I will consider plugins for $20 if I can see a use. There are (what I think) simple plugins in the marketplace that offer limited use but cost $40. They will not get my money even though I can see some use for them. I live in Australia, so these prices need to be scaled up by a factor of about 130%, so that $15 per month becomes $20, etc. Then there is the annual $99 apple developer fee. So if I do nothing, I am paying $280 ($AUD370) per year before I start. I think the problem at the moment is that there is not a lot of trust in the Buzztouch community. The annual fee has quadrupled and we were promised 2(?) new plugins per month for that investment. The code in the self hosted is outdated (each new download is a lesson in using google to try and replace deprecated code, etc. Current plugins are not always updated to ensure compatability with the current ios. There is a plugin wish list in the how-tos that has not been addressed since 2014. Sorry for the rant, but I enjoy the ability to develop apps as a hobby and I appreciate developers costs and ROI.

Heck yea I know what y'all mean. Thanks for the input. Heck yea I don't ever expect a plugin to make enough to pay bills. Iom making plugins for a small development company I'm starting. I just don't like when alot of people say they want it then only a couple of buy it, that's sucks, mainly because I hate writing documentation for big plugin and everyone wants there own little extra features so it doesn't work out. Then people bother me constantly about it like I work for buzztouch then don't want it after I did all that work. I just do t want it to be for anything anymore. It's not about the money, I make way more the other way. Fore it's creating a product and seeing everyone use it. It's a good feeling.

AussieRyan hit the nail right on the head... the trust of the buzztouch community is nowhere near what it once was, and was in part whats kept me from being active so much in the last year. When mobile OS are updated several times per year, but the buzztouch core, docs, website, samples, etc are 2-3 years old, it's very discouraging to wonder if parts will work with the only way to find out is to pay for a plugin that MIGHT still be valid, and/or invest hours if not days only to find out the code or plugin is outdated. Honestly, when I came back and seen that the membership price quadrupled with nothing to show as far as updates, or even updating sections of the website (e.g. buzztouch U), it was honestly a slap in the face and I was (and still kind of am) weighing my decision if I even want to renew and get that year 4 badge next to my name or not. I have another month to figure that part out. Don't get me wrong, It's still 110% worth the quadrupled price if everything was kept up to date... but... yeah. On that note, I'll bite my tongue and leave it at that.

Ha yea I wouldnt pay hundreds for a plugin either, Im sooo cheap. I wouldnt really do that but just needed to get a conversation started with the community. Its not like I have to make a plugin, or anyone has to buy a plugin. Ive made all of those plugins on every list and my own versions of other plugins because Im too cheap to buy them. Plus all of those plugins are just for one or two people. Not everyone wants those. Theres not enough return on investment for plugin developers. Plugin buyers get way more than return on investment. Getting the source code is more than return on investment. I know most buzztouch users dont understand the hard work that goes into software development, so it seems like too much. Even when I release plugins for free, I expect at least alot of people to use it so I know my hard work didnt go to waste. Buzztouch is worth it though. I can create apps without using buzztouch, but making 'plugins' is an easy way to organize it to me so its worth it to me. I can create apps without buzztouch because Ive learned from buzztouch. Honestly David should raise the annual price when he does update it. For everything we get, its worth way more than what we pay. Honestly I have too much responsibilities to just do this as a hobby anymore. I might get laid off soon so yeah.

buzztouch will get better, we just all have to work together as a community more

Interesting conversation here. If you guys are complaining about return on investment for plugins in the market you can imagine how poor David must feel with all the work he has put into BT in the past... and getting little to no return. With regards to pricing of plugins, years ago when I started on BT, I was like the average use that couldn't code for anything ( still am lol), I built relationships with plugin developers that made plugins that were relative to what I needed and got plugins made for me, most of them I then allowed the said developer to list them on the market for others and create. So for example I would ask for a particular plugin to be make lets say that cost me $400, I would factor that into my pricing to the client, I would then have it for always to use and the developer was able to earn extra $10-$30 for each sale on the market. However some of the plugins on the market are pure copy and paste from github etc I expect there will be a clean out of those kinda plugins and those that are no longer supported by the developer. So what is the right price?? There is no rule that can be applied, the market determines the price ( if you want any sales). If you are able to put up a rock solid plugin with good documentation maybe a video and have good after sales support, then go for it charge $100 or more. If I am going to use it in an app I make for a client then it is money well spent. My last point that I want to make is this, and not totally related to this forum post. It pains me when developers are whinging about BT not updating as much as they would like, while they are riding on the coat tales of the BT platform and making and selling plugins privately ( not via the market) and BT don't see a cent of that. If it was up to me this wouldn't be allowed to happen. If you make revenue from BT's IP then you should do the right thing and pay some kind of royalties. There are certain "members" here that make a living out of a Plugin black market and should be ashamed. pss, interested to hear from anyone what they think the way forward would be for BT from a new user to experienced user to plugin developer would be....

how many active people are on here still round about?

I know David is basically giving this away. I wonder howany people are active in here as well. David has already started moving buzztouch I'm a better direction , we just have to be patient.

Thats part of what I'm talking about. There are "copy and paste" plugins that got flooded into the plugin market by a certain developer a year or two ago (we know who who we're talking about", and even when released half of them didn't really function... now almost none do. The developer is long gone, in fact he was actually bragging about copying and pasting a bunch of public source code into BT plugin format and making his grand exit so he would at least have some money trickling in after he left. Shameful if you ask me. The plugin market needs cleaned out desperately. But removing the ones from "that one developer" would clean out 90% of it alone. Take a page from the Wordpress Extension site. Just because the plugin hasn't been updated in awhile, and new versions of the base wordpress have come out... the plugins don't disappear right away. Instead, the info tells you the last KNOWN supported version was 4.2 (or whatever), with a badge that says "This plugin has not been TESTED with your version of WP". Even that would work. Something. Anything. And yes, David has done a ton or work. I know it's not his full time job. I respect what he's done... but at the end of the day he is running a business and needs to provide whats promised (2 new plugins a month for the 4x price hike? Where are they??? BTU... do you REALLYwant to see what version of xcode those no-longer functioning examples are using?). But if you are going to advertise a product, you need to supply the functional product when people pay for it (especially when you jack up the price 4X without lifting a finger to improve it). At the end of the day he is running a business. Do Microsoft's customers care if Bill Gates has a fishing trip planned for the month of August so there won't be any security patches released in Windows that month? No. He charged money for his operating system and needs to support it when things change. Here, the philosophy seems to be "ok, we got everything working, now we won't have to release an update for years until something major makes it all break... and even then... that's if I can't be bothered because after all, this isn't my full time job". Thats fine if he doesn't want it to be his full time job, but at least give control to someone that can patch the sinking ship back together and give it the attention it deserves. I know this will probably get me in trouble, but honestly, I doubt I'll be here once my subscription runs out in a month, so might as well say what everyone else is feeling. I honestly can't afford it at this price point, coupled with my apple dev fees, web hosting ,etc, etc.... for a piece of software that hasn't been updated in 2 1/2 years with PAID plugins that may or may not work (no way to know until you pay and try). To each his own, but I think that's the final straw for me, unless something changes drastically in the next month.

if we all just came up with a great idea together and built an app as a team we would make tons of money, that's an idea. everyone here active has a specialty they can zone in on

I don't think it's the apps or the money thats an issue, I think it's the base tools to create those apps that desperately need the attention.

Good points all. Just a correction, at no point did David say he WILL make 2 new plugins a month as part of the new pricing strategy. That was all part of a discussion soliciting feedback on how people want to go forward. Regarding the 4x price hike as you put it. I think you are getting carried away with the multiple rather than the end price. At teh current pricing it is still a steal. No doubt things will change, when and what is up to David to decide, users are able to come and go as they please, if you can't afford BT and are then unable to make apps, then I would guess that the $99 you pay Apple is ludicrous, as you are paying for something you are unable to use without BT. I guess it all depends on what your motive is with having a developer account etc. Are you trying to learn a little income or is this a bit of a hobby? Either way BT is a really cheap hobby compared to some things we spend our money on these days. Sorry I really just done buy the fact that people think BT is not worth it, who are you trying to kid? Please take this from where it comes, it is clear we are ALL passionate about BT and continue to support the community even when things haven't moved along at a pace we want. I suspect in the next 6 months there will be a major announcement of the direction BT will be taking, I for one hope David doesn't say screw it I am shutting it down, it's not worth the trouble of maintaining it... Long live Buzztouch.

Good points KB. Btw though, yes it is in writing that there are 2 new BT plugins per month. Right on the pricing page that he redid when he jacked the price. Still, a 2X price hike is reasonable, I don't believe a 4x price hike is. If apple raised their yearly price to $199 a year, would we pay it? Probably. But if they raised it from $99 to $399 overnight, what percentage of developer account do you think they would lose? I guarantee it would be well over 30% churn rate. But that's all I'll say about it. If I can't afford to renew, that will be my own issue. See here for what David says we get for that price (2 plugins per month, etc): https://www.buzztouch.com/pricing

I stand corrected, apologies.

Ill release my CM pay plugin free for those who endorse me on Linkedin https://www.linkedin.com/in/christopher-coffee-08abb050

This is my new way of making sure we all get something fair in return. If you dont want to pay the price, endorse me on Linkedin and Ill send you a free plugin of your choice.

The reason my plugin is higher priced than the average is to make the buyer truly invest in their decision. That will limit the quantity and it will limit the amount of support I will have to provide to inane questions. It's my way of only having to deal with the serious people. Plugin development is a lot of work. Such as is app development. It's indeed a quandary on where one should invest their time and energies. I can see that being a developer for hire to make custom plugins is a decent path for part time work. It still won't keep you out of the poorhouse. -- Niraj

I am happy if my plugin sales cover my BT membership. Bonus if I make enough to cover my self hosting costs.

Committing to 2 new plugins a month is a big ask. Perhaps one solution is for BT to pay developers on here a fee to release plugins that are free to paying members. That kills 2 birds with one stone - developers earn some extra money and the whole process is less time-intensive for David. There are enough talented developers on here, including the OP and a number of the contributors to this post. The frustration on the forums over the last few months has (I think) been more about wanting to see BT succeed. Not just criticising for the sake of it. I get the sense a large number of long-term BT members want to help to make BT work for all.

The apps I've made I've created for paying clients. If there is a feature I can charge a client for, I'd happily buy a plugin that cost a couple of hundred dollars because I'd up-charge for the feature. This is why I've purchased some specific plugins in the past. Granted, if you're creating apps for yourself and trying to monetize via ads, it's much harder to get a return on investment. I'd love to have a list of all the unpublished plugins. That way we could show what we're interested in. Almost like a semi-"kickstarter" approach: Something like if 10 people commit to pay $30 for my plugin on a list, it gets released for everyone. Anyway, I love seeing the active conversation like the "old days" here! :-)

Something like this: http://btplugin.yopaapps.com No means complete, but a draft to look at. I am currently working on something similar for another client. I would be happy to develop and host this site if there was agreement. Just my contribution to keep BT going.

Nice stuff, "Aussie Ryan" if that would happen it would be hosted on BT for sure. I do like the idea a lot tho !! :) I will connect with you about working on apps in Aus via PM. Think we can work on a few things together. I am at the Gold Coast in March for an event that is run on on of our apps.

cool stuff

The future of buzz touch looks uncertain to me. That is one of the reasons I have put off developing new apps using the platform. Also the reason I am not buying new plugins. I don't know whether it will work. Nobody checks whether plugins are still working. There is no quality control. I love the platform and would really like to see it go forward. But it does not seems as if David has the time to invest in keeping it updated. One way to solve this is to get other capable members to help. get a team together to update the software.